A Day with AGUSTIN DIAZ
by Alex Pertout
Agustin Diaz is a highly respected master percussionist who for the last 42 years has been an integral part of Cuba's most important rumba ensemble Los Muñequitos de Matanzas. Cuban music enthusiasts worldwide, most probably discovered the ensemble with the release of the album Guaguanco; one side featuring the ensemble credited as Conjunto Guaguanco Matancero, while the other featuring Papin Y Sus Rumberos. The ensemble was formed in Matanzas in 1952; one of their first songs titled Los Muñequitos becoming so popular that it brought upon the name change.
Los Muñequitos de Matanzas is currently celebrating seven decades cultivating the art of rumba; a musical genre declared World Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity by the United Nations Organization for Education, Science, and Culture (UNESCO). According to Caridad Diez, “the rumba was born in the dockside areas of Havana and Matanzas. It is danced in the solares (dwellings) and barrios (neighbourhoods) of those two cities in western Cuba and has always been the patrimony of the humblest quarters of Cuban life. It has different variants, among which the yambu, the columbia and the guaguanco are predominant; but the latter is the most developed and well-known form. The rumba is music made with tumbadoras and cajones, it is sung and danced.”
Los Muñequitos de Matanzas is composed of vocalists, percussionists and dancers. The percussion section includes tumbadoras (hand drums of Afro-Cuban origin known as congas in other parts of the world), the set consisting of the conga or salidor (low drum), the seis por ocho or tres dos (middle drum) and the quinto (high drum), claves (pair of resonant hardwood sticks struck together), the cata or guagua (traditionally a cylindrical shape idiophone struck with sticks), campana (cowbell), the maruga (a unique three-headed metal shaker), as well as a set of three cajones (wooden boxes played with hands, the smaller ones being wedge-shaped). These days the cata is often substituted with an LP jam block, while the maruga part is usually performed with a shekere (beaded gourd held by both hands shaken and struck).
Over the decades Los Muñequitos de Matanzas have released an extensive catalogue of albums, have toured internationally including the USA, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, Spain, England, Italy, France, Germany and Japan, have been nominated for numerous Latin Grammy awards, have won several Cubadisco awards and took part in the ground-breaking album La Rumba Soy Yo, an album produced by Caridad Diez with shared musical production with Joaquin Betancourt, that assembled Cuba’s best rumba exponents and which won a Latin Grammy under Best Folk Album. I had the pleasure of conducting this interview via phone with Agustin Diaz in Matanzas, Cuba. The interview was conducted in Spanish. Here is the result of our conversation.
Señor Agustin, could you please tell me about the founding members of Los Muñequitos de Matanzas
Florencio Calle ‘Catalino’ was the director of the original ensemble. He played the cata and was the composer of many of the songs they performed. My father Gregorio Diaz ‘Goyito’ played the conga, Pablo Mesa ‘Papi’ was the seis por ocho player, Angel Pellado ‘Pelladito’ played the quinto and the cajon quinto and Esteban Vega Bacallao ‘Chacha’ played the quinto. The vocalists who worked as a duo were Hortencio Alfonso ‘Virulilla’ and Esteban Lantri ‘Saldiguera’, along with Juan Mesa, also known as Juan Boco, who was the featured improvising voice.
What are your recollections of Los Muñequitos de Matanzas growing up?
The group was already running when I was born. I do have vivid recollections of their regular meetings at our family home. Here they would develop new material, much like the way you would construct a muñeco (a puppet). They would work hard on developing songs and then on arranging these original songs. I knew all the members really well, as they were always around. I used to also attend their full rehearsals and then also their performances. I was always really inspired by the music they presented.
How did your musical connection begin?
My musical connection was always there. I have it in my DNA. I come from a family that has strong roots in the genre of folkloric music, as artistic performers, both from my mother’s and father’s side. From a very young age, I was always playing. I have three brothers and four sisters and they are all able to play as well. As a youngster, I was involved in all types of musical environments. In groups of son (Cuban popular dance and music genre), in comparsas (large percussive ensembles connected with carnival and other popular festivities), in folkloric groups, I was just always involved in playing.
In Cuba, what is the pathway for a youngster interested in developing rhythmic skills?
Here in Cuba, when a youngster demonstrates an interest and has the aptitude to develop percussive skills, the first areas that are shown start with the clave. We have three major rumba styles; yambu, guaguanco and columbia. The first one they teach you is the clave for yambu, which is the first rumba that was developed. Then you moved into the clave for guaguanco and then columbia, so you end up developing these three distinctive clave patterns. All the youngsters learn using this development. The clave patterns first. So, it all starts with the clave pattern for yambu (proceeds to sing the pattern):
[Note]: All patterns in this article are written in 3-2 clave direction
Yambu - Clave pattern
Then this development continues with the clave pattern for guaguanco (proceeds to sing the pattern):
Guaguanco – Clave pattern
Followed by the pattern for columbia which in the countryside was traditionally played on a guataca (a metal gardening hoe struck with metal rod). The pattern used is the six-eight campana (cowbell) pattern (proceeds to sing the pattern):
Columbia – Campana pattern
The next stage is the development of the patterns for the cata, which we often also refer to as guagua, for each rhythmic genre. They start with the cata pattern for yambu (proceeds to sing the pattern):
Yambu – Cata pattern
It continues with the cata pattern for guaguanco (proceeds to sing the pattern):
Guaguanco – Cata pattern
And this is followed by the cata pattern for columbia (proceeds to sing the pattern):
Columbia – Cata pattern
That’s a remarkable system to establish a solid rhythmic background
Yes, it is. Then later, they start to develop all the other parts and instruments, little by little, but first clave and then the cata, as without the clave there is really nothing.
When did your career with Los Muñequitos de Matanzas commence?
I was 25 years old when I joined the ensemble. I have now been playing in the ensemble for 42 years now, without a break!
I believe you had the experience of playing alongside your father Gregorio when you first joined the ensemble
Yes, my father who was a founding member, was there from the beginning until his passing in 1996. He always played in the ensemble, so I when I joined, I was there with him.
What instrument did you start playing in the ensemble?
When I joined, I played the cata part, I did that for a long time. And my father was playing the conga part. I could play the seis por ocho, but it took a while before I got to play that part. They took their time in giving me that role! It was like, “you are not going to arrive here and just take that role, not so quickly, you will need to suffer a little here.” It was as if they were punishing me a little (laughs). From time to time though, whenever it was possible, like in smaller performances for example, I would play the conga part, or the seis por ocho, or even the quinto. Later I devoted myself to the seis por ocho role. I can play any of the parts, but when I play the seis por ocho, everyone wants me there, they want me on that spot. I carry the part well for everyone.
Such an interesting role the seis por ocho part, could you please elaborate on the diverse styles that role has in the performance of the Havana and Matanzas versions of the rumba guanguanco?
In terms of that particular part, in the Matanzas style of rumba guaguanco the middle part is called seis por ocho, while in Havana style they call it tres dos. The approach to the middle part is quite different between the two styles of rumba guaguanco. In the Havana style the part sounds like this (proceeds to sing the Havana pattern with its distinctive two open tones melody):
[Note] Tumbadora nomenclature used:
P=Palm, F=Fingers, B=Bass, O=Open Tone, (S)=Muffled Slap
Guaguanco - Havana style pattern
In the Matanzas style though, the part incorporates a movement known as chapeo. The chapeo was created by Los Muñequitos. It’s a specific rhythmic movement performed with a combination of palm and finger strokes (proceeds to sing the chapeo):
Chapeo movement:
We basically start playing the chapeo and wait until the conga starts playing its part. The conga authorises the seis por ocho to start its basic pattern. When the conga commences its pattern, then the seis por ocho moves onto playing the basic Matanzas style pattern which incorporates the chapeo movement and one open tone (proceeds to sing the Matanzas style pattern):
Guaguanco - Matanzas style pattern
The current tumbadora section includes Eddy Espinosa and Freddy Jesús Alfonso, can you tell me about their roles?
The current section has Eddy on the conga part, Freddy is the quinto player and I play the seis por ocho. I was in the ensemble before they came on board. When I first joined, my father Gregorio was there, as well as Eddy’s father Victoriano Espinosa and Freddy’s father Jesus Alfonso. This ensemble is about tradition, has always had a strong family connection. Eddy, Freddy and I can basically play all the different percussive parts, but each one of us chooses the instrument that one feels a strong association with.
One of the areas I find fascinating is the development of the rhythmic backbone of the rumba, the way you develop the conversation / improvisation between the middle part, your seis por ocho and the lower drum part, the conga played by Eddy, could you elaborate on that 'in the moment' development?
Well in the main is purely improvisation. As you sit there playing, you start creating phrases, things are developing in your body and soul and you are creating in the moment, enjoying it, enjoying that experience that we have in front. We are putting our hearts into the moment, it’s an in the moment experience. What develops between the conga and myself on the seis por ocho, are basically questions and answers. The conga poses a question to me, and I answer it. Like we say, “the conga calls you and the seis por ocho answers.” There cannot be a particular movement made by the conga, without you on the seis por ocho answering it. You have to answer. It’s similar to what you experience in bata drumming (hourglass drums associated with Afro-Cuban Regla de Ocha religion). The iya (lowest drum) is the one that calls to the itotele (the middle drum). When the iya calls, the itotele has to answer. The difference is that in bata drumming you have to answer what the iya asks, in other words the response is set, but in rumba this context is open. You just have to answer. The main thing is not to stay silent. In rumba as soon as the conga asks you answer whatever you feel like answering. There are no fixed measured replies as you find in bata drumming. The improvisation in rumba is different to that of bata drumming. In rumba you perform and answer whatever your heart desires.
And these conversations that you engage in between the seis por ocho and the conga freely incorporated throughout the song, in which sections do you express them?
Well, we normally have more conversations when the estribillo (chorus) section of the song comes in, in those sections there is more movement. At the beginning, in the opening of a song, it is a bit sparser, but in any case, there is no lack of drumming improvisation, as the main improvising drum is the quinto, and so you do have the quinto improvising. Between the conga and the seis por ocho, we have to find the space, we look for the quinto to gives us a spot, so we can then improvise. For example, the quinto may be playing a line which suddenly takes a short break, then we ask and reply right in there. In the opening, when the vocalist is developing lines as a soloist or in duo format, we tend to do a little less. That’s one of the main differences in our approach, when comparing it to other groups. There are clear sections in our performances and clear developments. It’s never, ever cluttered. That’s how we also maintain our Los Muñequitos sound and style. As soon as people hear the clave, without even the vocals coming in, they say “that’s Los Muñequitos de Matanzas.”
In terms of the low part as played by the conga drum in the rumba guaguanco, when did Los Muñequitos de Matanzas start to incorporate the bombo (bass drum) stroke?
The integration of the bombo stroke in that part, well that’s another innovation by Los Muñequitos. This was created by my father when he played the conga. At the time, people who had not seeing them live thought that Los Muñequitos were incorporating a bombo into the instrumentation, but it was my father who would lift the drum off the ground, to play this bass sound in that particular spot in the rhythm. In the original ensemble it was something that the conga played. Nowadays, at times, I also make use of that particular stroke on the seis por echo. So often we have two drums connecting with a bass sound on that spot.
[Note] The following two examples showcase this bass sound stroke addition. This bass sound played on the ‘and of two’ of the first measure, connects with the second stroke of the three-side of the rumba guaguanco clave. These examples have been transcribed from a video performance of rumba guaguanco by Los Muñequitos de Matanzas in Atlanta, USA in 2011. The first example showcases the pattern played by Eddy Espinosa on the conga:
Conga part as played by Eddy Espinosa
The second example showcases the pattern played by Agustin Diaz on the seis por ocho. As he earlier explained, when they both do that, they connect playing the bass stroke on different pitched drums.
Seis Por Ocho part as played by Agustin Diaz
In watching your performances over the years, of note also is your inclusion of another tumbadora to your part, how did that develop? What tuning do you incorporate for that extra drum?
I got that idea in my beginnings in the ensemble. Jesus Alfonso who was playing quinto, would often add another tumbadora while playing that role. So, he’d be soloing on the quinto and then suddenly would play a couple of movements on the other drum. I started to incorporate this idea and developed it to the point that now, I cannot live without it. I must have this second tumbadora next to me. The tuning I incorporate is usually lower than my main drum, at times though, I tune it even a whole tone lower than the conga played by Eddy.
When did the incorporation of the set of cajones start?
The person that first brought a cajon to the group was Angel Pellado, one of the founding members. And it was the cajon quinto (highest pitched wedge-shaped cajon) what he played. Angel would play the quinto in combination with the cajon quinto. And although the founding members performed yambu repertoire, they never actually played the yambu patterns or used the complete set. They only incorporated one and it was the cajon quinto. Since then, we often make use of the set of three cajones when we perform rumba yambu. In that we play the cajon grande or cajon mayor (lowest), cajon mediano (medium) and the cajon quinto. We have repertoire that we perform with that set up.
The abakua music tradition is ever present in the repertoire of Los Muñequitos de Matanzas could you tell me more about this?
As a youngster, if you are inclined, keen to participate, you go to the abakua fiestas (festivities) and you start to develop these long-term associations. And as a youngster I was always there, always attached to it. Here in Matanzas, I live three blocks away from a house that is called Potencia de Uriabon, a place where abakua plantes (ceremonies) take place. This is where abakua songs are performed using the traditional instruments of the abakua. In Matanzas, like in other major centres in Cuba, the abakua, the ocha, the arara, the palo monte, all these traditions are kept alive. With Los Muñequitos we have vast abakua repertoire. We play the rhythmic parts with the tumbadoras, but we also have the traditional abakua set of percussion instruments to performed it as well. The founding members also played a lot of that repertoire, and we have continued that development. In abakua there are two main styles that exist, the Havana and the Matanzas, we incorporate the Matanzas style.
Another major contribution to the rumba genre by Los Muñequitos de Matanzas is their original approach to vocals
Los Muñequitos were responsible for popularising duo singing in the rumba, in two voices. At that time no one was singing rumba in duo format, they were the ones that created that style, that sound. Nowadays it is not uncommon, but in those days that was not in vogue. One of the most popular rumbas at the time was El Vive Bien, but the vocalist was singing solo, as in the ocha (regla de ocha Afro-Cuban religion originating in West Africa) in which the akpwon (lead vocalist in religious ceremonies) sings solo with the choir behind. Los Muñequitos brought this new sound it to the fore, their approach was unique, voices in duo plus the improvising vocalist. These days the improvising voice is performed by ‘El Niño’ Rafael Navarro. He holds the role originally held by Juan Boco. ‘El Niño’ though, apart from improvising is also involved in many of the other sections, including the duos, he is the specialist. He teaches everyone in the ensemble, especially the youngsters coming up.
In terms of Rafael, it is so impressive to hear him sing while playing claves and may I add so comfortably as well, has he always held that role?
Yes, he is the voice of rumba in Cuba and he cannot sing without playing the claves. For many, this is an impossible task. They make mistakes when they try it, so they stop playing the claves as soon as they start singing. Rafael also makes his own claves, he is an expert in making claves. In Los Muñequitos we use a high pitch clave, this also identifies the ensemble. As soon as you hear the claves, everyone knows is Los Muñequitos. And even when we don’t have any performances, Rafael walks around with the claves in his pocket, always! Rafael is amazing and our rhythmic connection and communication is really strong. And we have been doing it for a long time together. Also, at times we don’t get to rehearse as regularly as we would like to, but as soon as we go on the stage, we transform ourselves, the connection is there, strong as ever. He is 82 years old, maintains a perfect voice and looks better with every passing year.
Throughout your extensive career performing with the ensemble, which tours have been the most memorable?
My favourite were the first ones to the USA. We got a chance to play in places like the Apollo Theatre in New York where thousands came to see us. That first tour was incredible, packed houses, exciting concerts. We are one of the most frequent Cuban touring ensembles. We have conducted many USA tours, as well as European, performing countless times in France, Germany, England, Italy, Spain, always extremely well received.
To close, how do you feel about being part of such a remarkable and influential musical genre and also being part of the genre’s leading ensemble?
I feel so fulfilled to be part Los Muñequitos. First of all, I am very honoured to be the son of one of the founding members of an ensemble that has never stopped, one that has been going steadily for 70 years, uninterrupted. There are not many ensembles that can attest to that. And this is ongoing. For me, to have been part of this development, the tours, the recordings, the awards, it’s just remarkable. It has been 42 years and I feel extremely happy. Also happy with my discipline, which has characterised my life. We now have many youngsters coming up, so we have the future assured. We are mentoring them, showing them the path forward. As an example, in the family home of our current ensemble director Diosdado Ramos Cruz, his son Diosdado Enier Ramos has created an academy, a space to teach the younger generations. I also have many nephews who play, continuing the family tradition. They are rumberos, they play everything. Here in Matanzas, there is a great group called Los Reyes del Tambor, that was founded and directed by one of my nephews, Michael Galdez Diaz. They have been going for over 20 years and most of the ensemble members are nephews of mine. In Cuba, folkloric styles are highly respected and Los Muñequitos represent the supreme division of the rumba. Thanks to the masters that founded the ensemble in 1952, we are blessed with this remarkable ensemble that will just keep growing and growing.
My special thanks to Caridad Diez, Latin Grammy winning record and audio-visual producer, musicologist and manager of Los Muñequitos de Matanzas for all her help, information, images, connecting me with Agustin Diaz and for her continued friendship. Professor Lucy Duran for the image of Los Muñequitos de Matanzas performing with Cuban cajones, taken in Matanzas in 1989 and Andrian Pertout for proofreading the final draft.
© 2023 Alex Pertout. Published by Drumscene Magazine.